1. Warming up a few thoughts on the low point of the hero's journey: Trip to the Underworld
- Viewing a well-known heroic trip the Underworld/the Abyss (1:08:35)
- What is the hero struggling with in this scene?
- How might this scene represent a trip to the Underworld/the Abyss?
- What does the hero have to do in order to make it out of the Underworld/the Abyss?
- Flip through pages 142-173 and find one line that connects to the Underworld/the Abyss.
- Read these aloud in a quick whip-around.
- What's Oskar really struggling with in this chapter?
2. Enjoying Fishbowl Discussion #3: Pages 142-173
3. Wrapping up with takeaways and reflections
HW:
1. Read pages 174-207 for next Tuesday in Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close; spend 30 minutes this week with your journal.
If you miss a Fishbowl or Socratic, you must make it up. Fishbowl: Read over the syllabus and blog comments, then add an extended comment to the class blog. Socratic: Read over the syllabus and the class notes, then add an extended comment to the class blog.
If you miss a Fishbowl or Socratic, you must make it up. Fishbowl: Read over the syllabus and blog comments, then add an extended comment to the class blog. Socratic: Read over the syllabus and the class notes, then add an extended comment to the class blog.
2. BRING INDEX CARDS ON FRIDAY.
3. We will continue our READING JOURNAL CONFERENCES in class next Monday and Wednesday. Click HERE for the rubric.
3. We will continue our READING JOURNAL CONFERENCES in class next Monday and Wednesday. Click HERE for the rubric.
4. TOMORROW IS THE FINAL DEADLINE FOR SUBMITTING ANY WORK FROM THE LAST SIX WEEKS.
During the Hamlet play, do you think Thomas is actually glad that Ron doesn't show up, or would he have liked the support even if it came from Ron?
ReplyDeleteI think Oscar hates Ron in his own way. He doesn't show his hatred, but he certainly doesn't want anything to do with him
DeleteI agree with Henry, I picture Ron as someone that Oskar despises. Oskar sees Ron as a way for his mom to move on from the death of his dad. Oskar sees Ron as a threat through Ron taking away time with him and his mom.
DeleteWhy does the author keep bringing up blocking out the world? For exsample the picture of the falling man and now Mr Black who is deaf. Is he trying to symbolize something?
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Oskars mom ask him about his bruises ?
ReplyDeleteMaybe she doesn't ask him about the bruises because she has known what has been going on, and she doesn't want to draw attention to it because he would be more likely to do it again.
DeleteMaybe she doesn't want to upset Oskar. She could possibly think that if she asks him about them he would get upset and shut her out.
DeleteWhy did Abe Black help Oskar as much as he did? Is there some deeper connection or was Abe just being nice?
ReplyDeleteI think this goes back to what Ms. Leclaire was saying on Tuesday, that after 9/11 everyone in New York was especially friendly even to strangers. But it could lead to a deeper relationship between Abe and Oskar.
DeleteI think he helped Oskar because like Mrs. Leclaire said, after 9/11, everybody always checked in on everybody to make sure they are okay, so I think when he found out what Oskar is going through, he wanted to help him as much as he could
DeleteThanks to both of you for referencing something I said! Nice to know you're listening. :)
DeleteI think there is a possibility for connection but I also think that since Oskar's father died in 9/11 much like we talked about last week, no matter if anyone was a stranger, the event brought people together because everyone needed support at that time.
DeleteGood thoughts, Andrew and Kaylee. I agree. I think that 9/11 both broke our nation apart, but in a weird way brought our nation closer together than they had ever been before.
DeleteWhy does Oskar care about maintaining relationships with the Blacks he has visited who know nothing about his father?
ReplyDeleteThis might be because when Oskar lost his dad it left a huge hole in his life that he now is starting to fill back up with relationships with new people. Maybe Each of the blacks, even if they didn't connect to his dad, have a sort of connection to Oskars dad in Oskars eyes
DeleteThe blacks were both feeling bad so I think oskar was just being Oskar and cheering them up in anyway
DeleteI think Oskar missed school for that audition because of how important Hamlet was to Oskar. The two have so much in common in terms of what they've lost and what they're looking for.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Oskar has hit the underground part of the heros journey?
ReplyDeleteYeah because the underworld isn't always a physical underworld, but sometimes it is all mental. I think after not discovering much on his quest and dealing with his dad's death, he is just in a very mentally dark place. Also, when you are in the underworld you might say or do something that you might regret, and he does when he tells his mom that he would rather have her die than his dad
DeleteI think we can't really predict or realize when the underground part of Oskar's journey will be because there could be any point where he just feels lost. For all we know the key could lead to nothing about his father and that could be his lowest point.
DeleteIf Oskar has not hit the lowest point of his journey yet, then he is surely close. Oskar has had some really tough times in his journey, but recently I feel like a lot of feelings and information is hitting him really hard and this could quite possibly be the lowest point for him
DeleteI don't believe he has. Usually the underworld is where the hero feels like giving up. I haven't read anything in my mind that would make Oskar want to give up. I feel like he has found his mentor or a mentor through Mr. Black who lives upstairs.
DeleteI agree with what the inner circle said about the meaning of "Heavier Boots" one of the effects of depression is feeling weighed down and tired with little energy. I think Oskar is going through this right now, and he feels like his "boots" are weighing him down.
ReplyDeleteWhy did all of the Blacks come to watch him in the play?
ReplyDeleteI think the Blacks came to the play because they value their relationship with Oskar, and they could probably tell that Oskar is going through a hard time and feel the need to support him.
DeleteI wondered about this, too. What kind of impact did Oskar have on them? What role do they play in his journey, and what role does he play in theirs?
DeleteI think all of the Blacks came to watch him in the play because he impacted most of their lives with out knowing what he did. He went to their houses searching for answers but what he didn't was that he was helping them in his own way.
DeleteOskar stayed to talk to each of them even after he found out they couldn't help them. He genuinely cared about them as people.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHave we all already experienced something that we will remember for our lifetime?
ReplyDeleteI think there's a series of events that we will always remember in our lifetime because those events were the ones where were influenced the most.
DeleteI definitely think that we all could have gone through something we will remember forever at this time in our lives, whether it be the shooting, or the death of some people that were very close to us, or any personal problem that someone has gone through. They might not always be as big as losing a parent, or a mass terrorist attack, but there can definitely be events at this time in our lives that will stick with us forever.
DeleteDo you blame Oskar for letting his anger get the best of him and what he said to him mom? Or is that just something that happens when you're mad?
ReplyDeleteI think that every little kid has moments where they "hate their mom" but Oskar's emotions have just been amplified by his circumstance so he just said something, probably without meaning much by it, he just was hurt so he wanted to hurt someone else to get it off his chest.
DeleteI agree with the inner circle about Oskar not wanting to build a relationship with his mom, because he's still mad at her because she moved on so quickly from his Dad
ReplyDeleteWhy hasn't Oskar lost hope looking for what the key means?
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar persists in his goal to figure out what the key means because he cares a lot about his dad and doesn't want to live with the regret of never finding out what it means.
DeleteI think once he finds out where the key goes to Oskar feels like he will be closer to his Dad even though he is gone
DeleteI think its because he never wants to forget his dad, and if he gives up on the key, it's like giving up on his dad
DeleteDo you think that in order to escape the "abyss" in the hero's journey you have to confront what has gotten you to that point? How is Oskar an example of someone who fits this trend?
ReplyDeleteOn page 142 Oskar says, "I didn't want to go to auditions because my boots were too heavy to go." Do you think that there is a metaphorical meaning behind Oskar saying, "my boots were too heavy to go"?
ReplyDeleteI think this saying has just stuck with Oskar so he says it any time he isn't feeling great. Its understandable in this rough time for Oskar to not be interested in going to his audition because he is quite sad.
DeleteI think this could mean that Oskar may have not been ready to take part in something like the role of Hamlet. It could also be overwhelming because him and Hamlet have been through so much in their journey.
DeleteI think some of it is just him being nervous but ya I bet osker does not think he is good enough.
DeleteLike a few people were saying before, this could be the lowest and hardest part of his journey, he might not want to go because he feels like all the hurt and information from his dads death is on his shoulders, weighing him down and he might feel like he doesn't have enough strength to keep going.
DeleteI think he says heavy boots so it easier for him to talk about how upset he is.
DeleteOskar and Mr. Black have quite similar circumstances, does anyone else think maybe Oskar and Mr. Black have a similar mental state?
ReplyDeleteThis is a good theory. Turning off your hearing aids for years on end seems like something Oskar would do.
DeleteThey might, I think they just understand each other because they're both in a similar place so they might feel comfortable with each other.
DeleteOn page 147, Oskar is talking about his dad and says, "He would of been able to explain everything." Do you think this might of been the reason he felt so close to his dad?
ReplyDeleteI think that this is one of the reasons why he was so close to his dad. I also think that Oskar felt like his dad was the only one who really understood him, or put the time into understanding him.
DeletePage 146 says, "I smash his head again with all my force and blood starts to come out of his nose and ears." Did Oskar really beat up Jimmy Snyder, or is this just a metaphor for the anger and confusion he is feeling? And if he really was punching him until he was bleeding, why did nobody stop him?
ReplyDeleteI think this is just a metaphor of all the anger and confusion he's feeling because if that were actually happening, I'm sure somebody would've tried to stop Oskar.
DeleteThis part of the chapter is really interesting because this is the first time that we see Oskar lash out (or think of lashing out) in the book. A question to go along with this: do you think that all the heaviness and hurt in Oskars life is starting to effect him in different ways (like behaviors) ?
DeleteIt's definitely just in Oskar's mind. At the end it says "The audience is applauding" which most likely wouldn't be the natural reaction to the beating of a nine year old.
DeleteI think what's happened has left Oskar vulnerable to attitude changes. Oskar talks about how getting closer to finding out about his dad will lead to him drifting away from his mom early on in the book and it is currently happening. Oskar doesn't want to change his mom to be more like his dad, he needs a new door so to say to open up that will help him move on. He feels alone and I think that has changed his attitude a bit.
DeleteOn page 168-169, oskar asks his mom not to bury him when he dies. His mom tells him that he is going to live a long life. oskar then says, "As you know, I'm extremely brave, but I cant spend eternity in a small underground place. I just can't"
ReplyDeleteOskar has considered himself an atheist throughout the book. So what do you think he means by this?
I think he just means that he doesn't want to spend his eternity in a grave. Since he is atheist, he doesn't believe that his soul leaves his body after death, so he thinks that he would literally spend eternity in his grave in the hole in the ground.
DeleteThe Mr. Black who lives above Oskar is clearly lonely. You can see this when Mr. Black starts telling Oskar his life story as soon as Oskar walks in. Oskar was the first real visitor in years, so was that enough to make Mr. Black agree to turn on his hearing aids? Or is it because Mr. Black trusts and/or has a connection with Oskar?
ReplyDeleteI feel like Mr. Black (and, perhaps, the rich woman Oskar visits in this chapter) is living in a tomb of his own making. Oskar is trying to figure out what it means to be dead and what it means to be alive with a dead spirit. I think in a way, all the characters in this chapter are in some kind of living tomb.
DeleteThe quote on page 147 "It would be a shame to die without riding the Cyclone" and the fact that Oskar rode the ride tells a lot about how much he's changed. Regardless of the relationship that Oskar had with his dad, he taught him the most important lesson that Oskar ever could have learned: live life like you could die tomorrow. I don't think Oskar would've gone on the roller coaster if his father didn't pass away.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think he wouldn't have valued the idea of riding the ride as much if he didn't have a more important reason to go on. I also don't think he really wanted to go on the ride, I think he felt a sort of obligation to do it because of what his dad said.
DeleteIs it reasonable to take the feelings of Oskar's mother into account? Oskar is in a very low place but how must Oskars mom feel with a diseased husband and a very angry emotional kid. Can she be truly blamed for making Oskar feel bad?
ReplyDeleteOskar has a strange way of thinking about the death of his father. Even though he loves and misses his dad he still says, "Dad didn't have a spirit! He had cells!"(pg 169). Why does Oskar change his mindset to so negative at this time, over a year after his dad's death?
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar misses his dad, and the things him and his dad used to do, but may not feel sad about his dad dying. Oskar doesn't seem to grasp the feelings that come after death. He thinks in a very logical, practical, and scientific way.
DeleteI think Mr. Black tried to help Oskar so much because Oskar helped him, he was the only visitor he's had in a long time, and Mr. Black probably enjoyed his company
ReplyDeleteI think Mr. Black definitely enjoyed his company because he started opening up to him. For example showing him his biographical index. The biographical index is also interesting. Why did he only write a person's name and one word? I thought that was interesting, I've never heard of anyone doing that.
DeleteWhile I was reading the quote: "I wondered, for the first time in my life, if life was worth all the work it took to live." really stuck out to me. What do you think Oskar meant by this quote?
ReplyDeleteI think we all go through this through our lives. There are definitely times where the journey seems to long to keep going and I think Oskar is facing his first real road block
DeleteThis is a good representation of Oskar's Abyss. Being someone who doesn't give up despite facing ridiculously small odds, him considering throwing in the towel is pretty much as low as he can get.
DeleteI think that he is saying that because it is hard to live when you have to work so hard to get over something when you feel like your life is over. When you lose someone.
DeleteThis reminds me of Hamlet's "To be or not to be" speech, which is essentially a suicide speech. What does it mean to exist? What happens to us when we die? Is it worth it to be alive when you're in a place as dark as where Oskar is right now?
DeleteHow do you think the relationship between Ron and Oskar's mom is going to play out?
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling that much like in Hamlet they will get married which will upset Oskar even more.
DeleteOn Page 171 INCREDIBLY ALONE is the title I think that his underworld is at the lowest of the low right now. What do you think is going to help him transform and come to terms with what had happened and start to heal?
ReplyDeleteI think that his turning point could come if he finds another clue in the puzzle that his dad left. right now he seems frustrated because his quest is going nowhere, and his hopelessness led his to this dark place. If he finds even a little bit oh hope within a clue from his dad, it could be his turning point out of his dark place.
DeleteHow have we seen Oskar's personality change between now and the beginning of the book? Has he changed at all?
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar's personality hasn't changed but his relationships with his peers such as his mom have changed. Oskar was the same curious kid that had an amazing imagination.
DeleteWhat if the key and all the clues weren't left by his Dad, what if they were from his Grandpa that he left for Oskar's Grandma to give to him when she felt he was ready
ReplyDeleteOn page 145 the quote, "I wondered for the first time in my life, if life was worth all the work it took to live." This shows how Oskar is going into a depression. He does know if it is worth it to keep on looking for an answer and closure. Do you think Oskar will continue his search for answers about the key, or will he give up because he doesn't see the point in it anymore?
ReplyDeleteI think he will continue his search because he seems determined for answers and to not let go of his dad.
Deletedo you think oskar wants to be the only one his mom cares about and no one else?
ReplyDeleteOn page 151 "Even though I told her I didn't need help, she made the door man promise to put me in a cab" Throughout the book Oskar has been very independent and has not had a lot of help along the way, do you think this act angered Oskar or made "his boots a little lighter" to know that people are looking out for him ?
ReplyDeleteOn page 142 Oskar says "Twelve weekends later..." what happened in those 12 weeks? Why is he skipping over such a large portion of time?
ReplyDeleteI think that the purpose of changing the title was to show that this is his lowest point in the story
ReplyDeleteOn page 171, Oskar tells his mom "Either promise me you'll never fall in love again, or I'm going to stop loving you". Is it possible to completely stop loving someone that has such a big impact on your life like you mom? Or are you just temporarily trying to shut them out of your life for your own self help.
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar just wants to temporarily shut her out because he needs time by himself to process the loss of his father.
DeleteI personally don't think it is possible to completely stop loving someone who has had such a big impact on your life but it definitely is possible to shut them out for your own self help or just because you want to
Deletewhy did his mom didn't say anything about his bruises? did she think their fight caused him to want to do that to himself?
ReplyDeleteI think she was hurting so much from what Oskar said to her about "If I could've chosen I would've chosen you" and I think she was so exhausted emotionally that she didn't want to bring it up because she knows how hard Thomas' death is on Oskar
DeleteI think the reason she might not have said anything at the time is because Oskar was tired and half asleep and she might not have wanted to talk about that at the moment since they already had been fighting that night, but I think she could bring it up to him at a later time.
DeleteI think that she knows that he gives himself bruises considering that he seems to do it often and it would have been very hard to hide. This would also be why she didn't react
DeleteI agree with Lauren I think she is emotionally exhausted, also she may just be avoiding the issue because she doesn't want to deal with it.
DeleteI think that okscar is having a low point in the book were he doesn't feel hope and just wants to give up on his quest and everyday things involved with life.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Michael i think the reason he changes the title to heavier boots because it signifies that he has gone even lover into depression then he already was and that showed he truly has reached his lowest point.
ReplyDeleteDo you think it is fair to Oskars mother when Oskar says "Either promise me you you'll never fall in love again, or I am going to stop loving you." on page 171?
ReplyDeletepg 145 really shows how sad he is when he says, " I wondered, for the first time in my life, if life was worth all the work it took to live. what exactly made it worth it? Whats so horrible about being dead forever and not feeling anything, and not even dreaming? whats so great about feeling and dreaming?"
ReplyDeleteOn page 147 Oskar says while on the roller coaster: "I kept wondering if what I was feeling was at all like falling" Do you think since he doesn't know exactly how his dad died in the world trade centers he might be wondering if he dad jumped and if he could relate to that feeling of falling?
ReplyDeleteOn page 146, Oskar is imagining having this violent fight with Jimmy. What made him snap all of the sudden have this violent fight in his head?
ReplyDeleteI think the reason that he snapped was a mix of a bunch of things. I believe a lot of it was that his mom wasn't at the play the last time and that his grandmother was embarrassing him.
DeleteIt seems like these sort of emotions have been building up in Oskar over time, and it was the easiest way for him to deal with them by channeling them into his anger towards Jimmy rather than actually dealing with the sources that are causing him to be upset.
DeleteI think it was because he loves his grandma and she may have embarrassed him but that doesn't give that kid a right to make fun of her. I also think its because he had a lot of anger about things because they don't make sense. on page 146 in the really long Oskar part he says "I want him to bleed, because he deserves it. And nothing else makes sense." he then goes on to list the thing that don't make sense to him
DeleteOn page 143 oscar keeps mentioning how Ron is not at the play and how he doesn't care but then he says he was embarrassed to ask why Ron wasn't there. Why was he embarrassed? Why did he want to know where Ron was? Does he actually want Ron to be there?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Oskar wants Ron to be there, I think he likes it when it is just him, his grandma and his mom.
DeleteI don't think that Oskar really wanted him to be at his play. I just think he wants Ron to like he even though he does not like Ron. I don't think that he wants him mom to know that he could possibly be warming up to Ron because in Oskars mind that means that he is forgetting his dad.
DeleteIn response to Jay's question of why would Oskar want to beat Jimmy with the mask, I think that Oskar was just emotionally overwhelmed and stressed out that he felt like that was the only way he could feel better
ReplyDeleteon page 170 oskar finally decides to confront his mom about how he thinks she's forgot about his dad, What forced him to finally bring it up to her and get answers to his questions?
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that we kind of see Oskar hitting rock bottom here caused him to just break down and finally express his feelings that he's been bottling up even if it wasn't in the best way
DeleteI think that she finally confronted her because it had been bugging him for so long and he needed an answer.
DeleteI think the point crossing out Heavy Boots in "Heavy Boots Heavier Boots" is to show that this is one of Oskar's lowest points. He is depressed and mad at everything "I felt, that night, on that stage, under that skull, incredibly close to everything in the universe, but also extremely alone. I wondered for the first time in my life, if life was worth all the work it took to live" (Page 145).
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think he says heavier boots rather than heavy boots to show that he is in one of the lowest times in his life
DeleteOskar is probably frustrated with him and his other problems so he's finally letting all his anger out.
ReplyDeleteOn page 146, Oskar says "I pull the skull off my head. Even though it's made of papier mache it's really hard. I smash it against Jimmy Snyders head, and I smash it again. He falls to the ground, because he is unconscious, and I can't believe how strong I actually am. I smash his head again with all my force and blood starts to come out of his nose and ears. But I still don't feel any sympathy for him." I found this scene really disturbing especially in contrast to how he acted in the beginning of the book. He is in such a dark place that he went from being this happy, chatty boy who only wanted to find where the key went, and now he's here thinking about smashing different people's skulls, including his own family's. Why do you think he's so aggravated that everyone's moving on and telling him to move on? Is the key the main thing that's keeping him tied to his dad? This might be ridiculous, but if anyone watches the show "Supernatural", a ghost can only stay tied to the world through an object of their belonging. If they stay on earth for too long, they become an aggressive spirit and can cause bad things to happen wherever they walk and can begin to take control of moving things and hurting people. Is there any chance that maybe Oskar's dad is tied to this key like a spirit and is causing him to think these bad thoughts? Maybe Oskar's dad is egging him on, giving him these horrid fantasies to smash people's skulls in. (This might seem a little silly but that was where my train of thought led me).
ReplyDeleteI don't think that his dads spirit is tied to the key, I think that Oskar is just grasping for anything that makes him still feel connected to his dad because he feels like everyone else is moving on and forgetting.
DeleteI think you have a good point here in that he might not be able to get over the fact that his dad is really gone because he's on this mission to find the pieces of this puzzle which is tying his dad back to the earth which is causing Oskar not to be able to move on, but since he cant exactly piece together this mystery or move past his dads death he has all this built up anger that's now coming out.
DeleteIn response to Michael: I think the author chose to reference Hamlet over any other play because it shows suffering of a son because of a father and so it fits in well with the story.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Oskar didn't wanna say anything because it would effect him and he didn't want people to make fun of him and everything so he just kept it to himself.
ReplyDeleteOskar and Hamlet relate very well. There home lives and there attitudes towards the situations they have been put in. The reference to Hamlet allows us to understand what Oskar is feeling a little bit better
ReplyDeleteI think Oskar didn't tell Jimmy to stop imitating his grandma because then he would have to admit that she was his grandma which would embarrass him because of how she was acting during the play
ReplyDeleteIn responce to kennys question, Oskar was afraid to confront the other boys because nobody knew it was his grandma so he didn't want to tell them that he knew her and possibly have them attack him
ReplyDeletewill oskar always feel alone knowing that his dad is gone forever, and his mom is moving on?
ReplyDeleteI think eventually Oskar will find a way to get some closure from his Dad's death. Maybe it will have something to do with the key.
DeleteI think if he finds out what the key is for he will start to recover from his dad's death and get closer with his mom
DeleteOskar eventually will have to move on, maybe after he gets closure and then he can focus on building a better relationship with his mom.
DeleteI don't think that he will always feel alone, I think he just needs time to process his dads death and he is doing that by pushing everyone away.
Deletei think he will warm up to ron but he still has feelings and memories about his dad so he is trying to deal with that problem.
DeleteHe probably felt like he lost the one parent that he has left which is his mom
ReplyDeleteWhen/if Oskar finds what the key is for, will he begin to recover from the loss of his dad and warm up to Ron?
ReplyDeleteI feel like even if he did get the closure of knowing the key's purpose, he would still end up not liking Ron. He'd probably recover a bit from the loss, and definitely end up in a better state than he's in now, but he'd probably end up still having this very low-key hate for Ron because he feels like Ron is trying to replace his dad by urging his mother to move on from Thomas' death
DeleteI feel like he felt alone because the people paid attention to him and everything but he lost his dad and now it seems like everything is just going down hill and he still ask if shes mad and she just replies back that she Is hurt.
ReplyDeleteI feel like there is symbolism in the skull with maybe the picture and thinking that maybe he could feel and be where his dad was as he fell from the building and if that person hit his skull against the ground.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why Oskar's violence is directly specifically at Jimmy...maybe because Jimmy gets to be the hero, the star of the play? Perhaps Oskar is frustrated with feeling unimportant, especially because he thinks his mom values her court cases over him.
ReplyDeletethe door knobs are different though and the bases behind them are different.
ReplyDeleteMany great comments and questions here, outer circle. When you're responding to someone else (which I highly encourage), make sure you hit "reply" directly in response to that post.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of the picture of the skeleton hand on page 155? Where is it rooted in the text and how is it important to the understanding of the book?
ReplyDeleteI think that Oskars mom should admit to Oskar that Ron and her could be in love. It is unfair for him to not know the truth.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think they are both keeping secrets from each other and that is not a healthy relationship
DeleteShe doesn't want him to feel like she moved on from his father so quickly after he died. When Oskar hasn't moved on and is affected by the fact that he lost his father everyday.
ReplyDeleteThere are five stages of grief, and during this chapter I think Oskar is on step four. The first is isolation, such as when Oskar stayed home from school and went searching for the Blacks. The second is anger, which he is experiencing right now too. That's why he wanted to smash Jimmy's skull. The next is bargaining. In that stage, the person experiencing grief tries to re-gain control of the situation. Oskar did that by going all over the city to find people with the name "Black". The fourth is depression. Oskar is clearly really depressed and this is his lowest point so far. But, eventually he will continue onto stage five, acceptance. That's where he will learn to live with his dads loss. How will he get to this stage? By finding where the key goes, or another way?
ReplyDeleteWhen Oskar obsesses over what's happened to his dad's body (the empty coffin, the particles they're breathing in, etc.), I think this is his way of working towards acceptance. He needs an objective description of what's happened to his dad.
DeleteDo you think that Oskar's mom has really moved past his dad quickly or do you think we are just assuming that she has because the only point of view we get of the mom is Oskar's and that's what he thinks?
ReplyDeleteI think she might not have moved on in the way that Oskar thinks she has, but she might be closer to moving on than Oskar is.
DeleteI think that the perspective is definitely one sided because oskar is a young boy and wants to protect his mom so he won't like Ron, the Mom obviously still has feeling about the dad so she clearly hasn't moved on
DeleteI think that Oskar's mom has really moved on from his dad quickly because although she understands Oskar's suffering, she doesn't seem to try and help him talk through it.
DeleteI think people don't know him but feel sorry for him because he lost his dad and he's trying to find aswers about his dad. Plus he's a kid and he's alone in the city so people are more caring towards him.
ReplyDeleteMaybe some of the people he has met are more connected to him or his father then they are admitting too.
ReplyDeleteI was reading through my class blog posts and a few from the other hour and I was very surprised that there was not much discussion about what Oskar said to his mom. On page 171 Oskar said, "If I could have chosen, I would have chosen you!" I was shocked when I read that book. I put my book down and I pondered what that could mean. I wondered what his mom was thinking and handling the situation. I can imagine that it would be very hard to take in, but what would she even do in response to being told that? How does anyone process being told that your son wished you were dead instead of your husband? Also, do you think Oskar really meant it? Yes, he did say it, but he also said it when he was mad. Yes, a lot of truth can come out when someone is upset, but do you really think Oskar meant what he said?
ReplyDeleteOscars going through a lot of pain and like Angela says Oscar may wish his mother had died. I don't think that he meant it because at least one parent is better than one. Maybe Oscar hasn't accepted what has happened let alone moved on and he may never be able to move on. I have a question could oscars mom be dating because she thinks it's whats best for Oscar?
ReplyDeleteThe most interesting part of this section of reading in my opinion is Oskar's fight with his mom. I don't think Oskar gives his mom enough credit for what she does. Just because they are grieving in different ways doesn't mean that his mom isn't grieving at all. She tries to hide her pain from Oskar and because he does it so well, he believes she doesn't have any. On page 171 she says "I cry a lot, too, you know" then she tells him that she does that because it's not fair to either of them for her to cry in front of him. I think this gave Oskar a lot of clarity and understanding of her mom. However, this is lost when she doesn't say anything about his bruises. I wonder what she thought when she saw them and if she says something to Oskar what it would be. Lastly, I am interested to see what happens with Oskar and Mr. Black's relationship as they set out to find the rest of the Blacks.
ReplyDeleteAlso: I think Oskar and Mr. Black can relate a lot because they are both very lonely. It was great to see them become friends after they talked.
DeleteOskar says of Mr. Black, “How could such a lonely person have been living so close to me my whole life? … It made me start to wonder if there were other people so lonely so close?” (163). Many people in this book are lonely, even if they are living with other people. What makes us feel alone? How does loneliness impact how we live our lives, and how does how we live our lives impact our levels of loneliness? What is Foer trying to say about loneliness and connection?
ReplyDeleteOn page 163, Oskar describes an invention he has thought up that would make people’s skin turn different colors according to their mood. This shows that Oskar has a desire to understand his own emotions, to understand the emotions of others, and to have others understand his emotions. He says, “Everyone could know what everyone else felt, and we could be more careful with each other….” Oskar shows that he wants to be considerate of the feelings of others, but he has trouble recognizing those emotions. Is this because the adults in his life try so hard to hide their feelings?
On page 165, Oskar asks Mr. Black if he wants his hearing aids turned on. Mr. Black replies, “I don’t know how to say yes!” and Oskar responds, “You don’t have to.” What other character have trouble saying what they need? How might their lives be different if their loved ones helped them anyway?