Tuesday, October 11, 2016

Dark Matter: October 11, 2016

Focus: What do Foer's characters fear? What do they do to feel safe?

1. Warming up with puzzling together the motif of "black"

Round 1: Put a sticky note on page 284. Hold it close. Hold it far away. What does it look like? Find a quotation from this chapter that you think explains somewhat why this page looks this way.

Round 2: Put a sticky note on page 305. Reread Stephen Hawking's letter. Use his letter to add to the answer from Round 1.

Round 3: Everyone Oskar visited on his quest had the last name "Black." Foer could have chosen any name in the universe, but he chose to repeat the name "Black." How does this connect to the answers for Rounds 1 and 2?

Round 4: Put a sticky note on page 318. Flip back and forth between page 284, page 305, and page 318. Read over the answers to Rounds 1, 2, and 3. Then make a thematic statement: What do you think Foer is up to with the concept of "Black"?

2. Enjoying our penultimate fishbowl discussion: ELIC, pages 260-306

3. Wrapping up with takeaways (for an extra challenge, work in a new tone word)

HW:
Finish the book. Finish your journal. Feel accomplished. 

172 comments:

  1. Do you think the jumbled text on page 284 has anything to do with how Oskar thinks/sees the world?

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    1. It could, but he also wrote that he did that because he just has so much to say but little room to say it. It is similar to the walls of his room.

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    2. Much like what someone said just before the discussion, I think that the blackness is all of the confusion that Oskar is going through on his search, and maybe the little light dots we can see are the image Oskar is trying to put together

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    3. I think the dark text represents Thomas and Oskars inability to explain all of their thoughts.

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    5. I feel like the jumbled text represents all of the questions that Oskar and Thomas have and don't have an answer for, and the spots of not as jumbled text is something they have found an answer for.

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  2. Why was Mr. Black such a big part of Oskar's search story then as soon as Thomas returns Mr. Black completely disappears?

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    1. I think their characters sort of switch roles. First Mr. Black helps Oskar and Thomas is not present, then later in the book it switches. Plot wise, I don't really have an answer to that question, but in the eyes of the author, I think that is the approach he was going for.

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    2. I think it's because Mr. Black noticed Thomas was following Oskar on his search for what the key unlocks, and when Mr. Black confronted Thomas, Mr. Black realized he didn't want to get involved in the complicated family matters between Oskar and Thomas.

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    3. This could back to the hero's journey. Mr. Black's role being a mentor in his journey.

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    4. Mr. Black wanted to fill in either as a father figure or a grandfather role. When Mr. Black confronts Thomas about following them, he realizes he has been taking a role in Oskar's life that clearly Thomas should have. He left so Thomas and Oskar can bond.

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    5. I was thinking that during their encounter (Mr. Black and Thomas) maybe Thomas asked Mr. Black to stop spending so much time with Oskar, because he felt threatened by Mr. Black. It would have made sense if Thomas did ask Mr. Black to back off, because after the encounter, Mr. Black completely disappeared.

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    6. When Mr. Black and Thomas met, he asked Thomas why wasn't he going around with Oskar. I think Mr. Black decided that Thomas wants to see his grandson and be close with him, so Mr. Black decided to step out of the scene to let Oskar's real grandpa to fill the void.

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  3. Stephen Hawking and Oskar are vary similar. Beyond there disabilities both are vary persistent and both have a lot of uncertainty in life. Is Oskars character based off Stephen Hawking.

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    1. I think this is a very good thought, in fact i was thinking the same thing. they are both smart people with their own disabilities, yet they can achieve their goals.

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    2. I think the author uses Stephen Hawking as a role model for Oskar to show him what he can accomplish even through all the difficulties he faces.

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    3. This is very possible because like Stephen Hawking said in his letter he also has asked himself, "What if I never stop inventing?"

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  4. On page 267 ".. there was a note written on the window, "Don't go away,"..." Thomas Sr. thought this message was for him, I i remember correctly Oskar also saw this note on Grandma's window. Is this message for Oskar? Thomas Sr.? Or both?

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  5. Do you think "the renter" (Thomas) saying "I'm running out of room" is like a metaphor about running out of time to get to know Oskar and "try to live." p.280

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    1. I think that he is talking about his inability to remember things anymore.

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    2. I think he is telling Oskar to go out and live his life, so that he will have a good life to remember when he is older.

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    3. Maybe he is running out of room in Oskar's heart. Thomas doesn't have a long time to live and maybe his chances of leaving an impact on Oskar are running out.

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  6. On Page 267, Thomas asks the grandma, "Do you want to see me again, or should I go away?" Why do you think he asks this after being gone for so long? Why doesn't he just walk up and see her?

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    1. There can be so many hurt feelings in a relationship where one partner leaves. He left before his son was born and left because she was pregnant, and did not come back until after he died.

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    2. Because he left on such a bad note.

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    3. Because he doesn't know how she felt. She may have never wanted to see him again, because she could've been angry at him for leaving. I think he was just trying to approach with caution.

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  7. Thomas says, "I'll hide in the coat closet and look through the peep hole." Why do you think that Thomas wants to see Oskar so bad? Why is his grandma so protective of Oscar?

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    1. Oskar is the one person that shows very similar traits to Thomas Jr. and Thomas Sr. never got to see Thomas Jr. so Oskar is the next closet person to what Thomas Jr. would have looked like.

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    2. I feel like Thomas has regrets for leaving his son, and now that he knows that he has a grandson, he wants to have a second chance. I feel like the grandmother is so protective of oskar because she doesn't want him to get hurt

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    3. I think he wants to see Oskar because he is his grandson and since he never really knew his son Oskar is the next best thing.

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    4. I feel like this is because he never really met his son so his son's son is the person that would most likely look the closest to his son he never got to know.

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    5. I think it's obvious why he wants to see Oskar, because he is his grandson. His grandma might be so protective because she helped raise Oskar without Thomas's help, and because he left, she might think that he doesn't deserve to see Oskar if he never helped out.

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    6. I believe that the grandma is so protective of Oskar because what if he does meet Thomas Sr. and he leaves again. Thomas Sr. walked out on his son and the grandma. He may want to connect with his son through his grandson.

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  8. "I wish I had known that I wasn't going to see Mr. Black again when we shook hands that afternoon." He gets so attached to every person he meets and I feel like he just can connect with almost everyone because of whats going through his head.

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    1. I don't think he gets attached to people but that he enjoys their company and wants their company and Mr. Black is male so he kind of replaced his father for a while.

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    2. Does this relate back to all of the Blacks and what they represent?

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    3. I agree, I think Oskar is a very unique 9 year old and he has this ability to make people feel comfortable to open up to him. For example Abby Black and Stephen Hawking.

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  9. (Going off of what Ms. Leclaire said) What evidence supports that the mom is a good person or a bad person?

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    1. I agree with Mrs. Leclaire that it's good she is letting him continue his journey and let him hold on to his dad in a sense but I also don't understand why a mom would let her 9 year old son wonder around New York by himself.

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    2. I think the only evidence you need is the fact that his mom is going through a lot and still has found a way to be there for her son no matter what Oskar thinks and what the people of 6th hour think. She definitely still loves Oskar because that's what moms do, and Ron could be a coping mechanism that Oskar's mom is subconsciously using to help her through the loss of her husband

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    3. I now have so much more respect for the mother, because most mothers I feel would hold onto their sons after such a tragic moment in their lives. But instead, she let him go on his own to find more of his father

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    4. I also agree with Elle and Mrs. Leclaire. It takes a lot of courage to let your son wonder into a city that had just been hit with a terrible terrorist attack. She does this because she knows it will help Oskar coop with his dads death.

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    5. I believe his mom is doing the best she can. She let everyone know Oskar is coming and she kept him safe by doing that. She knew she had to let him go "alone" and do this adventure. She let him, but also made sure she knew what he was up to. I believe this makes her a good mother by letting him do his own thing but keeping him safe. She may have a hard time connecting with Oskar but she is trying.

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  10. What do you think it means to Oskar that he was able to go on this journey by himself. And what can be said for a child with that kind of courage.

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    1. I think he began the journey, because he thought his dad had set it up, but eventually it became a way to reconnect with his lost dad, and as stated in the movie, "stretch the eight minutes."

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  11. When Thomas was entering the US and talking to the customs person he wrote that his reason for coming was "to mourn" then crossed it out and wrote "to try to live." Do you think Oskar feels the same way? That the reason for his quest is to try to live? Pg. 268

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    1. I think his journey is his way of "trying to live" without him actually realizing it.

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    2. I think his adventure is more him trying to connect with his father. He can't live without feeling his father close to him.

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  12. Why does Thomas' writing (pg276-284) close in on itself very gradually? Does it represent Thomas' growing urgency to explore all of the life he left behind?

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    1. I think at the end of his chapter, all the jumbled up words represents that Thomas could never write enough to express himself. And I think that last page is showing the insanity of his world

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  13. Going off of a question asked in the inner circle, "Why was the grandma so protective of Oskar around Thomas?" I think that she was protecting Oskar because she was afraid that Thomas would eventually leave Oskar as he did to her. She didn't want them to become very close, because she didn't want Oskar to experience more loss.

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    1. I completely agree with this because the grandma probably doesn't want him to grow attached to Thomas and then lose him like how he did with his father.

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  14. Responding to inner circle question about coping with tragedy: Based on the people Oskar visits, I'd say that part of the solution is finding connections to other people. (Yes--Gwynne is saying this beautifully right now.)

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  15. Why didn't Oskar see what was in the lock box? After all that effort to find the lock he won't get to see what it was after all that time.

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    1. On page 300 Oskar says, "It's not that I wasn't curious. I was incredibly curious. It's that I was afraid of getting confused."

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    2. I wondered this, too. I feel like in giving the key to William Black, he was "passing the torch." There are so many characters in this novel who are on a quest to reconnect to someone they've lost, and in this part, Oskar's quest ends with the resolution to somebody's else's quest. Oskar's answer no longer connects to this key; it connects to the other key he carries around, which is the key to his own home. It's time to go back home--the answers are there, now.

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  16. As Thomas Sr. lines get closer together don't you think at one point he would start a new book? I was also thinking that this could have been a suicide note just the way he was writing and how he ketp writing over what he had already wrote.

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    1. I don't think it's something as extreme as a suicide note, but I feel like he wanted to get all his thoughts down at once rather than taking a break and grabbing a new notebook.

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  17. What did finding the key help Oskar figure out about life?

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    1. I think he found out that there is not always an answer, no matter how desperately you want one.

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    2. I feel like this shows him that not everything has an answer in the long run. Somethings will forever be a mystery.

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    3. I personally think this book shows how you can create an adventure out of nothing.

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  18. How will his life at home and his relationship with his Mom be stronger after this journey. His mom can't replace the bond Oskar had with his Dad but what will be different?

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    1. I feel like his life will kind of return to normal but he won't be any closer with his mom.

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  19. Would Oskar be happier never finding out that the key was of no significance or does finding out let him tie up some loose ends?

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    1. Finding where the key goes put to rest impossible hope, so I think fining the key was good for Oskar

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    2. i believe Osakr was expecting to somehow get closer to his dad, but that didn't happen. So he wished he never saw the truth

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  20. I would definitely feel somewhat lost after my search for this deposit box ended so anti-climatically. After searching for months, it ends up that Thomas never even knew about the key... does this mean something? That what Oskar thought his dads biggest scavenger hunt yet wasn't really planned by his dad in the first place?

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    1. I keep thinking about the Stephen Hawking letter and the picture of the universe. Are we supposed to think that the universe set up this scavenger hunt? That the answers are already there, that everything is already invented, and it's up to us to make the connections?

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    2. Didn't Thomas Jr. kind of do the same thing with his father? Thomas Jr. went searching for Thomas Sr. but did he ever truly figure out who he was or why he left?

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  21. On a different note, do you think that we are over analyzing this book? I think it's a very powerful book and I think we should focus on the bigger picture. Do you think it's better to dive deep or skim across the top?

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    1. Foer's kind of a genius. He's been in interviews and written remarks about his intentions. While this book works on a pure entertainment level as well, I think his symbols, motifs, themes, etc. are quite intentional.

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    2. I feel like it's better to dive deep because if you skim through there are a lot of things you will skip and miss.

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  22. Oskar's father always gave him adventures to go on that he'd have to solve on his own. Do you think his mother sent Oskar on this journey to honor the father in giving him one last adventure???

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    1. That's a really good point. I think that it is probable Oskars mom didn't stop Oskar from going on the quest because of this.

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  23. On page 292, Oskar says, "My search was a play that Mom had written, and she knew the ending when I was at the beginning." Why was Oskar so quick to assume his mom was in on it?

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    1. Because before when he was talking to Abby she admitted that she talked to his mom and told her all about it.

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  24. I think one motif is Oskar slowly getting over his fears. This has to mean something about how this journey has grown him as a person and changed his relationship with his dad

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  25. On page 295, Oskar says death “was all anyone talked about, even when no one was actually talking about it.” Is this true? Why or why not? Why does Oskar believe this?

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    1. I think Oskar is tired of people talking about death so much especially about his father. They all say the same thing to him (that they're sorry) but it doesn't really help anything.

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    2. In my opinion, it is true. The lingering talk of death hung above every conversation that Oskar seemed to have, always, like, nagging at him and irritating him when he mostly just wants to move on. It's happening because when someone dies, it can take years to fully get over them. Oskar believes this probably because he can't get over his father's death either.

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  26. On page 301 Oskar tells William Black about the last message from his dad. Why do you think that Oskar is just now finding the courage to let this out?

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    1. I think Oskar just found the courage to do this because of all of the Blacks he has met and he has learned lessons, one of them taught him to be courageous.

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    2. I feel like Oskar just needed to get it off his chest, and if it's to someone who isn't going to care/remember, then he can feel safe knowing his secret won't get out. It probably isn't his courage, but rather fear/anxiety.

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    3. I think over the course of his journey to find the key, Oskar has learned to overcome many of his fears (bridges, public transportation, ferries, the phone) and this is a continuation of that. I found it interesting that Oskar asked for forgiveness for not being able tell anyone, rather than for not being able to pick up the phone (pg. 302). This emphasizes the importance of being able to open up and reveal our failures and our feelings to others.

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  27. On page 286, we see oskars card that says "Oskar Schell: Son". How will his card expand throughout the book?

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    1. I think that Mr. Black didn't see him as a son but at first, saw him as a friend. However, as time progressed and they became closer, he made him a card saying "son" to symbolize who strong their relationship is.

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  28. In the middle of page 281, Oskar’s grandmother tells Thomas, “It’s a shame that life is so precious.” Why does she feel this way?

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    1. Part of it is probably because she lost her son and he probably didn't think he was going to die that day. I also think its because she might fear for oskar's life

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  29. In response to Kassi, I think the grandma is trying to protect Oskar from something that Thomas knows

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    1. I agree, but what does Thomas know that she is trying to protect him from?

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  30. A quote by Albert Einstein in Stephen Hawking's letter says, "We are standing in front of a close box which we cannot open".
    Do you think this related at all to the lock Oksars trying to find?

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    1. Yes, most definitely!! Except Oskar's situation is reversed. He's walking around to find the key to whatever his dad hid (or metaphorically, happiness and moving on)

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  31. On page 304-305, we see Stephen Hawking’s personal reply to Oskar’s letters, in which the scientist writes, “I wish I were a poet.” What is Stephen Hawking trying to tell Oskar about life? What does Stephen Hawking mean when he says, “I wish I had made things for life to depend on”? What does “Maybe you’re not inventing at all” mean?

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  32. I think that the grandma doesn't want Oskar to know that Thomas is his grandpa because she doesn't think he deserves to be part of Oskar's life. She might also be trying to protect Oskar.

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    1. I can see that. I feel if he knew, he may not respect the man or like him, assuming he knows that he wasn't in his fathers life.

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  33. I think that grandma doesn't really want Thomas to be involved in her life anymore after he left and if he gets to know Oskar he might get involved in her life again

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  34. On page 302 Oskar opened up so much to William Black. Why do you think he could open up so easily to him and tell him about the phone, but not tell anyone else?

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    1. I think sometimes it's easier to open up to a stranger because they don't have the same emotional ties to the situation as someone like his mom would because showing his mom these messages would really upset his mom which would in turn probably upset Oskar even more.

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  35. On page 300 William Black says: "Why don't you come with me to the bank?" "You're nice, but no thank you." Why do you think Oskar chose not to go to the bank? He is always curious about everything, yet he decides he doesn't want to see whats in this safety deposit box.

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  36. YAY ALLIE! You did it. You're awesome.

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  37. On page 295, Oskar meets William Black, and finds out that the Key opens his safety deposit box. Does Oskar wish that the key had something more to do with his Dad?

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    1. I think he might but at the same time I think he is just glad that he figured it out

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    2. I agree with Aidan, I think he did wish it had a greater meaning to him, but he's glad that he can now move on and attempt to move along from his dad.

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  38. Every time one of you references a page or quotation, an angel gets its wings.

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  39. If Oskar finds out that his mom let him go on the journey and even talked to some of the Blacks, will that strengthen their relationship?

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    1. I don't really think nit will necessarily strengthen their relationship but I think that he will gain some respect for her because it's showing him that she cares about him.

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    2. I don't think it will strengthen their relationship I think it will make him not trust his mom as much because she was not telling him what she knew.

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    3. I think it could go either way. He could get mad that she needed to do that and didnt let him do it on his own but he also could be thankful that she knew and didnt say anything

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    4. I think it will strengthen their relationship because often times Oskar wondered why it didn't seem like his mom cared that he was a 9 year old boy out roaming the city alone or with an older man he met, but now he can see that she really did care a lot and wanted to help him in his journey to keep a piece of his dad close.

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  40. On page 279, when Oskar is meeting Thomas, Thomas wrote, "I don't speak, I wrote, "I'm sorry." why do you think Oskar wrote back instead of just talking? Do you think there is some significance there?

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  41. A quote from Stephen Hawking him self, in the letter on page 305 he says " Theres more I want to tell you, and theres more i want to here from you, its a shame we live on different continents. Do you think maybe one day they will meet.

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    1. Nope! Stephen Hawking's a busy man bud.

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  42. do you think that Mr. Black might have felt threatened by Thomas?

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    1. I don't think that he felt threatened but when he found out who Thomas was, he realized how important of a figure Thomas could be in Oskar's life so he decided to back off.

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    2. I think he felt Oskar was threatened before he found out Thomas was the grandfather. Also, symbolically, I think there can only be one person fulfilling the grandfather role. Once the grandfather enters Oskar's life, Mr. Black is no longer needed.

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  43. I feel like he did stop helping Oscar because he thinks that the grandpa might know more about him and they might be able to connect more.

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    1. Mr. Black probably feels like it's not his place to be having this journey with Oskar, when Oskar could be exploring and bonding with his grandfather instead.

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    2. I think he might have stopped helping Oskar, because that is the way his dad organized the journey. To have his father eventually meet his grandfather at the right time.

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  44. I was very upset when Mr Black decided to stop going with Oskar.

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  45. I think that Mr. Black stopped going with Oskar because he thought that if Oskar had a family member, that would help him move on from the dark place that he's in.

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  46. I thought that mr. Black didn't really want to get between Thomas and Oskar and get involved in their problems.

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  47. I agree with Kassi and Allie. In the movie we hear Oskars dad telling his mom about how he wanted to make Oskar talk to as many people as possible in his missions because it will help him to be less socially awkward. Oskar talks about how he is going on this "mission" to stretch every second of his dad's memory. I think his mom knows that letting Oskar do this is exactly what her husband would have wanted so that's why she lets him go without telling him that she knows.

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    1. I agree, I think that Oskars journey is also helping his mom because she probably just wants her son to feel better and move on. Oskar is all that she has left so if Oskar is happy, she will probably feel a lot better too. Also, it is definitely what her husband would want him to do.

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  48. I feel like Mr. Black died because he left behind his life's collections of the cards for each significant person he met or heard about. I feel like once Mr. Black was done helping Oskar he had sort of fulfilled his purpose and he died happily but I think that if he had left for some reason (and he definitely isn't in his apartment) that he would've taken all of those index cards with him.

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    1. Maybe Mr.Black just changed what he considered "significant" after his journey with Oskar.

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    2. I think that Mr Black might have moved. he probably knew that Oskar would go looking for him so the cards could have been like a present for Oskar or some sort of way to remember him. but there is always a possibility that he died

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  49. On page 318 there is a picture of what looks like space. To me space represents either emptiness (negative) or no boundaries (positive), do you think that Oskar is feeling positive or negative about his chances of finding out about the key?

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  50. Do you think that at the end of the book Oskar will coax Thomas into talking again?

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    1. I think Oskar will coax Thomas into talking again because, he seemed the most comfortable with him and maybe they will both help each other with their fears

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    2. I don't think oskar will coax him to talking again

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  51. When Oskar finally found out what the key went to, he wasn't that excited. Why don't you think he was relieved at all?

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    1. Oskar was probably hoping that the key would give him one last way to connect to his Dad, instead it was a key that went to a random person.

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    2. i think that Oskar was very disappointed that he found out what the key went to because he realized that it was likely that his father didn't even know about it. His whole journey he was hoping that it would "stretch his 8 minutes with his dad" (as Oskar says in the beginning of the movie) but now his journey is over and his memory of his dad is fading more than ever.

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    3. I think its because he after William Black told his story Oskar realized that the key was never really meant for him and it really opened up someone else's secrets and not his. It didn't help him to solve the mystery his dad left behind, it only helped someone else to solve what their dad left behind. I think Oskar felt disappointed in what the keys purpose really was.

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  52. I don't think he knew the key was in there but the mom could have known about that.

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  53. I think he intended to put Oskar on this journey, and he did know what was in it. He didn't it for the sole purpose to try to get him on this journey and he was a lot smarter than we think

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    1. I agree with Cindy because especially in the movie it shows how close his dad was to Oskar, and they were always talking about the borough, and it was clear to me that his dad wanted Oskar to be very adventurous. But also it's not like his dad could have seen his death coming, so in order for him to plan out Oskar's adventure with the key he would have had to have known he was going to die.

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  54. On page 284, all of Thomas's words are squeezed on a page. Do you think that this symbolizes he is running out of space to write? Why would the author add this addition to the book?

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    1. I think this symbolizes how Thomas has so much to say but never enough room to write.

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  55. What do you think the purpose of this journey is?

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    1. I think the purpose of Oskar's journey is to find closure and learn to live without his dad while still always being able to remember his dad.

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  56. We know that Oksar digs up his fathers grave. What do you believe the reason for this is?

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    1. Hey big guy, personally I think they did it just for a little more closure.

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  57. I think she lied because oskars mom told her too because I think his mom was worried that he was going to go somewhere and go crazy if abby told him everything

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  58. I think she didn't care at first because she had her own problems to deal with.

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  59. Quick reminder to outer circle: Try reading over others' comments and questions before posting your own, and make sure you click "reply" if you're replying directly to a post.

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  60. I feel like Oskar's mom is just trying to do what Oskar's dad would do for him, giving him space to question and explore and investigate everything. She knows she couldn't control him if she tried so she's trying to appease him and let him do what he wants to do instead of trying to fix him after the damage of his father dying in such an unknown and assumed to be quite horrible way.

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    1. I really never thought of it that way. I agree!

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  61. Caroline: Thomas realized that he missed out on raising his son, and it might have hit him that he had a son that he missed the opportunity to know his son.

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    1. Yes--I always wonder which pain is greater (not knowing his own son, or losing him). He chose to "lose" him, in a way, then he lost the opportunity to get him back.

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  62. Is his dad actually dead? we have no proof? we have an empty coffin but his dad could have left everything and ran but had no contact with anything and doesn't have any money or anything?

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    1. I cant see that. Would be a dumb twist if it were true.
      I mean it just seems uncharacteristic for him to do so, knowing his and Oksars relationship.

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    2. I so think that the dad is dead because it would be really messed up if he decided to just bounce when his family needed him the most

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  63. I think he was to scared and worried at the time and he didn't want to know what was going on because he didn't want to face the fact that he might never see his father again.

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  64. Why do you think the author never tells us the grandma's name? Does he mean to do this?

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  65. On page 281 I think this shows the merge of when his 8 minutes with his dad was ending, and it shows that Oskar still had a lot to say

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  66. Do you think that Oskar's whole journey was a huge mistake?

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  67. It opened my eyes that Oskar's journey might have been a huge mistake

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  68. Sometimes we don't find what we are looking for but we gain so much more.

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  69. After this discussion, I was able to look at the book more symbolically and metaphorically than before.

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  70. I tookaway a lot of new ideas of things that could have been hidden meanings in the book

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  71. One takeaway: Realized that his mom wanted him to have more social skills so she didn't stop him

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  72. I think this was a very good discussion and how many people can be behind things when you don't even know.

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  73. somethings that seem small and significant but when you step back they can be very important.

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  74. I think its very important to see what Oskar does from here because he found out that his key was the key to someone else's journey and thats a very disappointing realization.

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  75. I realized that the key had other potential meanings rather than a safe and that his destination could have been at home

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  76. Something I took away from today's discussion is that when you look at something from a different perspective you can find more out.

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  77. One takeaway I had was how Thomas followed oskar around.

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  78. Lindsey pointed out how Oskar asked William for forgiveness for not telling anyone instead of not answering. I thought that was interesting.

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