1. Warming up with World War II in Reverse and your emotional response to the novel's ending
- As you watch: Which images stand out to you? What's it like to watch a war in reverse?
- After you watch: Reread the ending of Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close, starting on page 325. What effect did these final pages and images have on you? How do these final pages connect to the video you just watched?
2. Considering the final stage of the archetypal hero's journey and your intellectual response to the novel's ending
In the final stage of the hero's journey, the hero returns home, but he has gained a new understanding of the world around him. He can no longer live in fear of the future nor regret over the past.
- To what extent does Oskar (or the grandmother or grandfather) fulfill the final stage of the hero's journey?
- In other words, how does he return home? What's his new understanding of things? To what extent has he confronted his fear of the future/regret over the past? Why does Foer put the ending in reverse?
3. Enjoying our final fishbowl discussion of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close: Page 307-end
4. Wrapping up with our responses to the focus question
HW:
1. By tomorrow: Revisit the Time page linked HERE that we explored on the first day of this unit. Watch two or three more interviews (or re-watch ones that you liked). Make a final entry in your journal about what new understanding you've gained from reading this book about 9/11, loss, survival, strength, or any other topic that surfaces in these interviews.
2. If I haven't conferenced with you yet on your reading journal, keep bringing it to class; conferences will continue tomorrow and next week.
What do you guys think Foer was trying to convey by reversing the pictures of the falling man?
ReplyDeleteI think he was just depicting Oskar's imagination, thinking that the falling man was his dad
DeleteI think he wanted to show what Oskar was talking about which is, wishing time would move backward so he could revert to a time when he was safe
DeleteHe was probably just showing what Oskar saw in his scrapbook, because it says he ripped out the pictures then put them in reverse order, pg 325
DeleteAs Oskar is explaining how he would reverse the pictures he turned it into his Dad's routine backwards. I think he had Oskar reverse the pictures thinking about his dad being the "falling man." He says, "When I flipped through them, it looked like the man was floating up through the sky," maybe he wanted the image to be a more peaceful image to look at. p.325
DeleteIs there a reason that the last page is blank? No body, no smoke just the building like a normal day.
ReplyDeleteThis is an awesome question. Foer could have ended with the body up high in the sky, but instead, he ends with an empty sky. Do you think the tone of this more positive or negative?
Deletethere is a building on the page, it is not completely blank, but i think that it represents the beauty before the horror
DeleteI think the tone of this is more negative, because the person is completely gone, showing that he died and probably making Oskar think more about his dads death, and how his dad is dead and out of the picture.
DeleteThis might be because it shows how it would have been if non of this happened at all.
DeleteI think he is trying to be positive, imagining that the tower didn't fall and it didn't happen.
DeleteIt's also interesting that much of the beginning of the book is Oskar dressed in white, searching for the last name "Black." There's so much gray space on the final page...has Oskar undergone a shift? From what to what?
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DeleteI agree with the conversation in the inner circle, the man went up to heaven.
Deletethere is a building on the page, it is not completely blank, but i think that it represents the beauty before the horror
DeleteHow has Oscar learned to cope with his fathers passing (I think its when he puts the pages backwards and remembers everything backwards)
ReplyDeleteI think he learned that it was destined to happen so when he was back he didn't try and stop it but wanted to cherish the moment because he said they were safe.
DeleteIt may be another invention of Oskar's. Oskar would create stuff that would save his Dad and maybe Oskar was inventing another way to save his Dad. H
DeleteI think that he has found some closure with his dads death and its something that will always hurt, but now he has some more explanation for it and not as much wonder about it all
DeleteI think he was trying to illustrate the peace before chaos, and how it would be an incredibly insignificant day if nothing had happened.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Foer decides to have Oskar explain his dad's day in reverse to the point where his dad was reading a book to him the previous night? Why not just to the beginning of his day?
ReplyDeletei think he wanted to show that his dad was a significant part of his life and if the day never happened he would still be telling him stories before he went to bed
DeleteI think that Oskar reminisces in his last memory with his dad, which was that last night. He didn't see him the last day, so I think that he just misses that last moment, and wants to be stuck in it.
DeleteI think Foer decides to have Oskar explain his dad's last day in reverse because it was the best closure Oskar has seen in awhile. Just like Garret said in the inner circle, "He makes peace with what happens by putting it in reverese." This is true because Oskar thinks if he could reverse he could make everything better again, and keep 9/11 from happeneing. The one invention that would let him have his dad back.
DeleteWhy does Oskar want to go back to when things were by his definition perfect instead of learning a lesson from the tragedy that was his fathers death
ReplyDeleteBecause he would take his dad over any life lesson.
DeleteWhy do people lie to protect people? Won't it be worse for that person when they find out they were lied too?
ReplyDeleteOur entire society relies on people muffling emotions. Lying protects others, but mostly protects you. And, most of the time people never find out they were lied to (that's part of why we keep lying).
DeletePeople lie to protect each other and to stay optimistic. When you tell the truth as it is, it is realistic but most people would rather think in optimistic views
DeleteWhen Oskar was talking about the worst day in reverse, what was the significance of Jonathan Foer writing "I'd (Oskar) have said "Dad?" backward, which would have sounded the same as "Dad?" forward."? (Pg326)
ReplyDeleteIt might have been because no matter what happens or how it's said he was and always will be his dad.
DeleteWhy did Thomas lie to oskars mom and say that he was walking home when he was still trapped in the building
ReplyDeleteProbably so that his mom would tell Oskar that he was walking home, and Oskar wouldn't worry. If he thought his dad was walking home, he wouldn't have had to invent all the ways his dad died in the building.
Deletehe didn't want to upset his mom or Oskar, I think he wanted them to think that everything was going to be okay
DeleteOscar puts his past behind him and choses to move on would you do the same?
ReplyDeleteI think I would, I think I would have to. The person that died would have most likely wanted me to move on, but still have them in my heart but not dwell on the past.
DeleteI would probably do the same because there isn't really anything you could do to change anything.
DeleteBeing stuck in the past is the biggest possible waste of time, so I would definitely move on.
DeleteI think I would continue to carry though emotions and the memories of that person with me instead of just forgetting.
DeleteI would move on because why would you want to live in the past if it was a bad time for you?
DeleteWhy did Oskar want to open his Dad'saved coffin?
ReplyDeleteMaybe to have that closure, he always hated that the coffin was empty and thought it was dumb they were burying an empty coffin.
DeleteHe also probably had a small small part of him that thought maybe his dad could be in there. He said he knows that nobody was in there, but he couldn't be sure until he checked for himself.
DeleteIt said on page 321 "In my brain I knew he wouldn't be, obviously, but I guess my heart believed something else" I think that Oskar wanted to open the coffin because he was hoping that his dad would be in there so he should stop wondering, but I think mostly for just peace of mind
DeleteOn page 321 Oskar explains, "Because it's the truth, dad loved the truth." Thomas says, "What truth?" Oskar responds, "That he's dead." I think this was Oskar way of finding some sort of closure.
DeleteOn page 307 the final time oskars grandma says my eyes are crummy and the grandfather says your eyes are perfect, why does the grandma continuously say that her eyes are bad when there appears to be nothing wrong
ReplyDeleteI believe in an earlier chapter she said that because she wanted the grandfather's attention. She wanted to make sure that he looked at her and he saw that she was looking at him.
DeleteI think that because she's older and has been through such a traumatic experience, she doesn't see the world as a happy place, however Oskar has good eyes because he's young and can change the way he sees the world
DeleteI think that Oscar and his mom could become very close and I think that Oscar knows more about life.
ReplyDeleteWhat skills do you think Oskar has gained on his heroes journey?
ReplyDeleteHe face a lot of fears and also because more comfortable in social situations
DeleteHe has definitely learned that not everything happens for a reason. And, he is more open (as Henry just said from the inner circle)
DeleteI think he learned out get out of his comfort zone, he's going to try and overcome his fears and be more open and talk to more people
DeleteI feel like he has learned that he can't live in his own bubble and he needs to do things outside of his comfort zone.
DeleteI agree with Kaylee and Jessica, he went out of his comfort zone in many different ways and conquered many fears.
DeleteHe's started realizing more than just that it's all about himself. Throughout the book you just get the sense he's growing up and becoming more mature
DeleteI think he learned there is not an answer to everything.
DeleteAre Oskar and Thomas more connected than we thought because on page 313 Thomas like Oskar had the same Idea of things being better if they moved backwards
ReplyDeleteBoth are missing people they desperately want back
DeleteBoth have trouble explaining emotions
Both want things to happen for a reason
Both appear to lead their lives by science rather than religion
Both are missing places in their lives (Oskar= 6th Borough Thomas= Dresden)
Why is Oskar okay with his mom moving on now rather than earlier in the book
ReplyDeleteMaybe because he is also ready to move on
DeleteOskar finally had a chance to heal. He didn't want to move on from his Dad because he still wanted to feel connected. He now feels ready to move on and understand where his mom is. Since he understand, he is now okay with his mom moving on
DeleteI feel like it is because they are both ready to move on and they can kinda restart there relationship in a way.
DeleteI agree with Mya, and also I think its because he has a new perspective on the situation and some more time to cope and understand the position his mom was in and how much she actually did care, and like Mya sad he is ready now
DeleteI think it has to do with how Oskar's mom handled the situation. By letting Oskar be upset with her for a while I think it helped Oskar on his journey. His mom was in on him all the time and knew what was going, but Oskar thought he was on his own and that's what he wanted. Now that he knows that, I think it just makes the whole journey even sweeter knowing that while he felt like he was at the lowest of his lows and had nobody, his mom was there for him the whole time.
DeleteI agree with Gwynne, I think he now has a new outlook on life and now that he is starting to accept his father's loss he is ready to be open to new things such as his mom falling in love again.
DeleteThe last words of the book are "We would have been safe." Pg. 326
ReplyDeleteEven after this whole journey, Oskar still seems just ask confused, sad, and wishes that he could be back before the worst day. He hasn't found much of anything about his father. In what ways has he fulfilled the Hero's Journey?
He hasn't found any answers about his dad and he still wishes the worst day never happened because this father will always be important to him and he will always want him back, but I think he learned that in order to live his life he has to move on and he has to appreciate the people around him and he can't be scared anymore
DeleteI connect this final line to the title of the final chapter: "Beautiful and True." Oskar has no control over what has happened to him nor what will happen to him, but he can find a way to carry his past without it crippling him emotionally. By thinking about the event in reverse/in the conditional, he can find beauty and truth.
DeleteDoes Oscar want to know Thomas the grandfather better?
ReplyDeleteI think if Oskar knew who he was he would be excited because he knew his Dad but Thomas hadn't ever meet Thomas.
DeleteOskaar would want to know Thomas better when he find out Thomas is his grandfather. On page 322 Oskar said he didn't know Thomas was his grandfather but later in life he does figure it out
DeleteI feel like he does want to learn more about his grandfather because he has always been a curious kid, and he never has met his grandfather until the last few chapters of the book so he wants to grow his relationship with his grandfather.
DeleteWhy was the whole lock box thing dropped? After Oskar talks to the husband, he decided that he doesn't want to look in it but there isn't much of an explanation. It seems weird that the entire book was about finding the lock, then once he found it he just decided to dig up the coffin instead of find the box.
ReplyDeleteThe lock was based on Oskar finding out more about his Dad. After he realized the lock meant nothing to his Dad, Oskar decide to give up.
DeleteBecause this is when he learned that not everything happens for a reason. I think it was a very significant part of the book, but I too wish the key led to Oskars dad or something significant like that.
DeleteHe was probably scared of what was in the box, towards the end he just wanted to move on rather then be stuck in the past, being upset over his dad all the time, he probably thought that what was in the box could've made it that way brought him back into his heavy boots
DeleteBecause it was the end to William blacks quest and not his, the end of his has been waiting for him the whole time at the cemetery
DeleteOn page 319 Oskar says"how could I have forgotten something so simple and important" referring to the batteries for his flashlight. Do you think that he and Thomas sr spent too much time plannig that they forgot about the little things
ReplyDeleteI think they were making up so many scenarios in their head, and planning for those, that they forgot to plan for the most realistic scenarios
DeleteIt's interesting too that at the very ending, he shines his flashlight on his scrapbook/journal. There's something metaphorical happening with the flashlight, but I'm still trying to figure out what it is...
DeleteOn page 321 Oskar said "we met every afternoon and discussed the details, like we were planning a war" When I read this it kinda made me think that this is like Oskars final battle to end this war with himself and his feeling. What other "battles" has Oskar seen throughout the book?
ReplyDeleteone of the smaller battles Oskar had to overcome was so many fears throughout the book and had to start being more open and talk to more people
DeleteWhere is Oskar's low point of the heroes journeym
ReplyDeleteI think the low point of his journey could have been when he wasn't finding any answers from any of the blacks and he was almost losing hope and also maybe his fight with his mom
DeleteWhen he lost his dad was when he was extremely depressed, but I think his lowest point was when Mr. Black decided he was done looking for the keys lock.
DeleteHow come Foer never really finished the grandmas story?
ReplyDeleteI was wondering the same thing!
DeleteInteresting! What aspects of her journey feel unfinished?
DeleteI'm not quite sure because it feels like he just drops the grandma's story at a weird spot in my opinion. I feel like many people have this question.
DeleteI just feel like things with the grandpa were still kinda unstable and also at the beginning of the book I felt like she was helping Oskar a lot more and then he just stopped bringing her up
DeleteAre you happy with the ending of the book?
ReplyDeleteNot really. I feel like he never fully accomplished the Hero's journey. I wish that Oskar found the lockbox.
DeleteI think the ending is great. Though Oskar didn't find the lockbox, I think he found what he was essentially looking for. He didn't want to move on/forget he wanted to find a way to bring the good out of the bad and that;s what he ultimately did.
DeleteWhat examples from the last chapter really give evidence that Oskar has made that full circle in his hero's journey?
ReplyDeleteOscar starts with Questions and ends with some answers and some more questions.
ReplyDeleteThat is life though. As we saw with Thomas, you are never done looking for answers or asking questions.
DeleteWhat does the Grandma mean when she says to Oskar, "It's always necessary"? (314)
ReplyDeleteI think Foer wanted us to learn that not everything will have an answer and sometimes will find some answers and sometimes will we end up with more questions.
ReplyDeletehe wants us to know that even though a bad thing might happen that will change your life forever, you still have to try your best to overcome it and live your life.
ReplyDeleteOn page 323 Oskar asks his mom if she was mad at him and then if Ron was, this kind of breaks the motif because normally he just thinks it to himself and then says I don't care. So does Oskar finally accept Ron?
ReplyDeleteDwelling on the past wont make things better
ReplyDeleteSome take aways include:
ReplyDelete- Not everything happens for a reason
- You are never done looking for answers
- You are never done asking questions
- Not all questions will be answered
I think that Foer wants us to realize that maybe not every journey has a concrete ending. That normal hero's journeys are not necessarily realistic, and most of our journeys will end at least partially unfinished.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what happens he wants to know that everything will be okay and we will find a way to cope with our problems
ReplyDeleteHe possibly wants us to understand that we all search for answers but never get them and we have to come to peace with them and move on.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Feor wants us to see and understand that Oskar has to come to a final decision eventually otherwise he will never move on.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the author had Oskar tell his dads death in reverse?
ReplyDeleteI think it's because that way you think about themes and lessons you can learn from the story rather then just focusing on the sadness of his dad's death
DeleteDo you think the ending of the book was effective or do you think the author should have approached it differently?
ReplyDeleteI think it is effective and it shows how Oskar is starting to feel better about his dad
DeleteI think it was effective, even though I didn't like it, it is similar to real life.
DeleteThe last line in the book is, " We would have been safe".
ReplyDeleteWhat would Oskar be safe from?
I don't think he is talking specifically about him, I think he is talking about his family as a whole more zeroed in on his dad. Saying his dad would have been safe.
DeleteOn the last page do you think that there is a reason that the last page is blank, no smoke, no body, no plane?
ReplyDeleteI think it's showing that Oskar didn't really want to think about the smoke and plane and he just wanted to focus on the man going back into the building and on the last page where it's just the building I think it's showing that he just wants everything to be normal
DeleteMaybe it goes along with the last line "we would have been safe" and that is a way of showing what it would have been like when the tower was normal and safe
DeleteIn response to and he is okay with Ron because he took the time to listen to his story and learn that he went through grief too and that he's not there to replace his dad
ReplyDeleteI think it has to do with death and not knowing where you go after death.
ReplyDeleteWhy was the grandmother's story never finished?
ReplyDeleteI think it's just because her story ties into the grandfather's at the end and they end up in the same place doing the same thing, but it would have been interesting to hear that part more from her perspective as well
DeleteAre Thomas and Oskar more connected than we think?
ReplyDeleteDoes Oskar want to get to know his grandfather better?
ReplyDeleteI think so, Oskar always got to know the people that he met on his journey and his grandfather was one of them.
DeleteIf Oskar tried talking to his mom in the beginning of the book do you think that his mom would help him with his journey?
ReplyDeleteI think the reason why his mom did;t talk to him is so that he could go on this journey alone and be independent, branch out, and find a way to get over his dads death on his own.
DeleteWhat's the reasoning behind the last page being blank?
ReplyDeleteI think the last page being blank has to do with the falling man going back, Like what Oskar was saying on pages 325 and 326.
DeleteI find it interesting that so much of that final page is gray, especially since Oskar begins his journey dressed only in white and looks only for people named "Black." What does the gray, empty sky at the end have to do with the ending of his journey?
DeleteI think part of Oskar's journey was to begin to understand that life is not all "black and white" or "yes and no," and to feel comfortable with the gray or "extremely complicated" parts of life.
DeleteWil Thomas start to be in Oskars life more as a Grandfather or will he continue to stay distant until Oskar needs him again
ReplyDeleteIn response to Riley, I think that the message was not intended to go to Oskar and he was just trying to reach someone and let them know what was happening. I think that Thomas knows how strong Oskar is and that he won't give up but knows his wife will fall apart if she knew what was actually happening.
ReplyDeleteIn response to inner circle, I think that Oskar's dad lies to the mom to give her a peaceful image of him. Oskar has horrific visions of his dad at the end of the dad's life; he doesn't find beauty, truth, or peace until he decides to put the images in reverse. Perhaps the calm image the mom has of the dad's final moments is what helps her heal more quickly than Oskar does.
ReplyDeleteOn page 322, the grandfather drops the clue that he is Oskar's grandpa. When do you think that Oskar made the connection that they were related?
ReplyDeleteIf Oskar knew that Rob was trying to help him through his dad's death do you think Oskar would have been a little nicer to him?
ReplyDeleteI think he still wouldn't have because he was so caught up with what happened to his dad he might have thought that Ron didn't have any place to try and help because he didn't know his dad
DeleteI think that Oskar wanted to recover from his Dad's death independently, and do what he needed to do in order to move on from his dad's death.
DeleteYea for sure. His mom always just said he was a friend. He didn't know that he had gone through a tragedy himself and was helping his mom get through it.
DeleteI agree with Jack, Oskars dad knew that if he lied to Oskar he would have been even more hurt thinking his dad didn't trust him, So then he ended up telling oskar the truth and not lie
ReplyDeleteI agree, also I think Oskar's dad understands that Oskar is very mature for his age and would be able to handle the truth.
DeleteWhy do you think Oskar's dad wanted to have Oskar believe that he had made it out of the building and was coming home?
ReplyDeleteDo you guys think Oskar's mom knew that Oskar was hiding the messages from her because Thomas called her too and might have told her that he called home
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Thomas would have mentioned it to her in those last moments, but it's possible that his mom did know because we find out that she knew a lot more about Oskar's journey than she showed
DeleteCalling all warm-hearted supporters, devil's advocates, and blog correspondents...
ReplyDeleteWas Oskar's journey worth it or do you think that it was a waist of time now knowing how it ended?
ReplyDeleteFor me, part of the big lesson is that we don't have control over the beginning or ending of our journey. You have to find a way to make peace with your journey.
DeleteEvery journey is worth it in my eyes. Sure you may not get what you wanted, but I think the experiences you have makes everything worth it.
DeleteI think that the journey was worth it because he was able to get over a lot of is fears and he seems to be in a possibly better place than at the beginning of the book
DeleteThe journey was definitely worth it since after he's dad's death, Oskar was having difficulty with coping with the event but after his journey, he had a different understanding and that he should move on since he can't change the past.
DeleteFor me I kind of expected a decent ending because in reality 9/11 was a very horrifying event and if Oskar's journey ended in the perfect way then I think that it would be a fake, I gained respect for the author because it is a great life lesson to know that everything will not end in the perfect way.
ReplyDeleteYea I agree. If it ended in like a crazy way, it would take away realism from a very real event.
DeleteI think that Oskar found closure at the end. He may have not found were the key came from but he did find out how his dad died and now he can stop looking and grieve over his dad and move on with life. Also I think at the end him not finding were the key was from brought him closer to his mom and helped him find closure by becoming closer to her.
ReplyDeleteOn page 326 "We would have benn safe" what's the true significance of this quote
ReplyDeleteOn the top of page 324, Oskar reveals that he wants to open up to his mother and tell her about his father's final messages. Instead, Oskar's mother tells Oskar about her own phone call from Thomas on 9/11. Why do you think Foer decided to have Oskar's mother reveal her secret to Oskar rather than the other way around?
ReplyDeleteI think it might be because she never opened up until the end and we knew Oskar's emotion the entire time
DeleteI thought the tombstone were for people that also died in 9/11 may be.
ReplyDeleteI think that to a point we sorta over thought the book but there where certain things that needed to be discussed.
ReplyDeleteI think he trying to make us understand that life can end at anytime. Life and time are previous and we shouldn't take that for granted.
ReplyDeleteMy personal takeaway was that rather than holding yourself in the past after the loss of someone, you have to move on and keep going despite the pain and the thoughts of what could have been done.
ReplyDeletedo the last pages that go in reverse is foer trying to show how oscar is thinking what would happen if the day never happened?
ReplyDeleteon pg 320 oscar asks "so why did it feel like it mattered?" i think this is a good point for the book because a lot of things make you wonder why did this even mattered and i feel like oscar isn't just thinking about that from just he coffin but just also this huge adventure that he has gone on
ReplyDeleteOn page 324, Oskar states, “I don’t believe in God, but I believe that things are extremely complicated, and her looking over me was as complicated as anything ever could be. But it was also incredibly simple. In my only life, she was my mom, and I was her son.” (324). I think that this is very significant to the book because it shows how he has come to peace with his mom and how everything can be seen as simple but also complicated. Also, relating back to Ms. LeClaire's point earlier, I think that the blank page at the end shows how Oskar has finally accepted that his father is gone. It can be seen as good and bad. It can be seen as good because he has moved on and it could represent his father going to heaven but it can also be seen as something to be forgotten. My personal takeaway from this book is that when a person is in a time of despair, they tend to look for answers. However, those answers are not always available and people need to learn to make the best out of things and move on.
ReplyDelete