Focus: What does Fitzgerald teach us about our capacity for wonder?
Tribe: Slightly shortened class
1. Warming up with musical chairs close readings of passages from Chapter 9
2. Enjoying our final fishbowl discussion of The Great Gatsby, Chapter 9
3. Offering you my current final takeaway from this novel
HW:
1. Prepare for Thursday's timed writing. Feel free to e-mail me your thesis if you'd like feedback ahead of time.
2. Make sure your Chapter 9 Gatsby blog is finalized by the end of the week.
3. Tomorrow, we will be forming book clubs. Check out the links on the website!
How Affected By Gatsby Death Is Nick? How Does Nick Feel Internally At Gatsby Funeral?
ReplyDeleteI think Nick feels lost. Not because he was such a close friend with Gatsby, but because Gatsby represented so many of Nicks ideals and goals. He looked at Gatsby as somebody he wanted to become, but realized the person he wanted to become was shallow and lame.
DeleteI would agree with Andrew, I feel like Nick doesn't really know what to feel. Bouncing off what Andrew said, I think Nick thought that Gatsby was some what of a role model when it came to the ideas of the american dream. Gatsby, I think, was a good representation of the american dream. Gatsby started off in a low income, not very wealthy family and then he found is way to become wealthy. As Nick started to spend more time with Gatsby, he started to realize that Gatsby wasn't as great as everyone thought he was and Nick realized he didn't want to become that type of person.
DeleteNick and Gatsby got so close that I think Nick is very upset. He looked up to Gatsby.
DeleteI think Gatsby's death showed who really cared about him. Nick being the only one there shows that Nick is the one that cared about him not daisy like Gatsby thought.
DeleteDo you think Nick has learned more about himself after being involved with Gatsby and Daisy's love?
ReplyDeleteI think he has because he's been so observant and knows how to deal with these situations.
DeleteI think that he has. Nick realizing how Daisy and Tom actually were thought, "They were careless people, Tom and Daisy-they smashed up thing and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness." Here Nick has realized that money can make people greedy and corrupt. He realizes that the life that he yearned to live was full of people who didn't care for others.
DeleteI don't know if Nick learned anything but rather is shocked at how everything just blew up in front of him and now he is left alone.
DeletePage 173 there was a schedule of Gatsby when he was younger. His father said, "It just shows you,don't it?" "...Do you notice what he's got about improving his mind? e was always great for that." Why does the dad find this list so important to him?
ReplyDeleteI think the list showed the father that Gatsby wanted more in his life then what he had. The father knew that Gatsby wanted more and was proud that his son wanted more.
DeleteAfter finishing the book, do you think Gatsby is actually great?
ReplyDeleteNo. I think Gatsby turned out to be a "wanter." He never really had enough. It just got a little annoying. Daisy wasn't even that "one of a kind", and he worked for years to get her.
DeleteI would say he would be great if his whole life wasn't revolving around Daisy
DeleteI think what makes Gatsby great is the same thing that destroys him: his dream. Perhaps Fitzgerald is suggesting that dreaming makes us great but also fragile?
Deletei do think he is great i feel like he somewhat deid honorably aswell as living a money filled fabulous life
DeleteI agree with Andrew. I think Gatsby was always on the chase. I think at one point Nick wonders if Daisy will ever be enough for Gatsby once he realizes she's just average. He was kind of stupid throughout the book and nothing could please him.
DeleteI think certain aspects of Gatsby are great. For example, he was willing to take the blame if anyone figured out who ran over Myrtle. However, the way Gatsby got his money is something no one should be proud of or should be considered great for doing.
DeleteSo to be great do you have to get that "one of a kind?" In the last scenes of Deadpool, although it is a silly movie it says, "Four or Five moments... that's all it takes to become a hero." I think you could connect that to being great. You don't have to be rich or successful to be great. Gatsby was both but the moment to me that made him great was when he decided to take the blame for daisy. He is giving up himself for something he has been chasing for so long making him great.
DeleteGatsby did some great thing being a poor man to the riches of the rich is quite the accomplishment no matter how he did it. To some people I'm sure they saw him as great. For example Nick knowing the truth about his past still gives him the title of Great Gatsby.
DeleteOn page 180, Fitzgerald writes: "Gatsby believed in the green light..." What does Fitzgerald mean by this quote. What was so important about the green light?
ReplyDeleteI think the green light it supposed to symbolize Gatsby's hopes and dreams of the future and the light was guiding him to his goal (Daisy).
DeleteI think it's just kind of been a dream of his and when gatsby wants something, he doesn't stop until he gets it.
Delete“And ever since he made a success he was very generous with me” (172). Gatsby never mentions his parents besides the fact that they are dead, which at least one of them is clearly not. Gatsby helped his parents but yet he never talks about them. Was Gatsby still ashamed of his parents? Do you think that Mr. Gatz would have the same pride in his son if he knew exactly what Gatsby did to get the money?
ReplyDeleteI think that Gatsby wasn't necessarily ashamed of his parents, but he believed in the "Gatsby" that he himself conceived.
DeleteI think his father would be ashamed of what his son has did, because it wasn't legal. Gatz was proud of what he has made himself, but he didn't do it in an honest way.
DeleteAlso, Gatsby was running a business that could involve danger and violence. I think Gatsby wants to still keep the Gatz in his name to stay a part of the family but he also wants to protect his family. If he were to get in trouble, the Gatz wouldn't be involved but he is still part of the family.
DeleteDo you think Nick regrets introducing Gatsby and Daisy?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he regrets it. It was taking a risk but then again Nick wasn't expecting anything that happened.
DeleteI believe he would because in this chapter he realized that Tom and Daisy are not good people who don't care about the lives they ruin because they have the money to hide themselves from the consequences.
DeleteI don't think he regrets it, because nothing in the book indicates that he does.
DeleteI don't think that he regrets it because he wanted to help out Gatsby. He liked Gatsby at the time so I think that helps.
DeleteIs F. Scott trying to make us realize that Daisy didn't really mean that much to the story? Tom and Daisy move away and don't seem to come back around in anyway, maybe F. Scott is making the reader realize that this world is crazy and everything surrounding Gatsby is crazy, with or without Daisy.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he is trying to make Daisy not mean anything to the story. The story happens because of Daisy, because of Gatsby's dream to have Daisy. Daisy is not mentioned a lot in the last couple chapters because Gatsby gave up on Daisy and his dream of having her.
DeleteI agree with Mya, the story wouldn't have happened without Daisy. I think Fitzgerald is trying to portray the idea of the choices we decide to make and the affect on others those decisions have.
DeleteHmm...I think her abandonment of Gatsby is almost as important as her presence throughout the novel. To me, she's emblematic of the forces that prey upon big dreams. She's like the dangling carrot in front of you that turns around and stabs you in the neck.
DeleteI think Fitzgerald is showing how easy it was for someones entire dream to just disappear.
DeleteI think F. Scott is telling us not to put chips into one pile and hope it pans out because Gatsby situation is a perfect example of putting everything into someone and it never working out.
DeleteWhat do you think is more hurtful to Nick. Gatsby's death or the fact that his cousin was partially responsible and she just turned her back on them?
ReplyDeleteI think Nick is more hurt by Gatsby's death. I say this because he realizes the kind of person Daisy really was after Gatsby died.
DeleteThats a good question, I feel like no one else is talking about Daisy and Nick's relationship. Nick seems to always stand by and not get involved with his cousin, he never talks even when she's in tough situation. I feel like Nick would be somewhat unaffected by the situation honestly.
DeleteGatsby was never Nicks best friend, he might have been more of an acquaintance for Nick more than anything. I think he was hurt by the lack of remorse from Daisy than anything.
DeleteI think Nick was upset that Daisy didn't even bother to notice Gatsby's death.
DeleteTough question. I think the struggle he articulates most in Chapter 9 is the lack of attendance at the funeral--the complete and total abandonment (not just by Daisy, but by everyone who once populated his parties).
DeleteI dont think Nick was very sad about Gatsby's death. But, he was definitely depressed about the shallowness of people. In the movie, that is why he ended up in the therapy center he started the story at. So to answer your question, I think Nick was much much more sad about Daisy being so careless about Gatsby's death.
DeleteI think Gatsby's death was more upsetting to Nick
DeleteI would say that he probably is equally hurt by them because both people sort of affected him but didn't at the same time. He lost trust for Gatsby, and he never really affiliated with myrtle and thought down of her due to Tom.
DeleteEven though Nick wasn't super close with Gatsby, he realizes how much he looked up to Gatbsy. Nick and Gatsby did things together often and Nick was a major part of Gatsby life towards the end. He may be more upset with Daisy but I think Gatsby's death hurts him the most.
DeleteWhy do you think we never heard any response from Daisy about Gatsby's death?
ReplyDeleteDaisy just moved on to the next fascinating thing. She was just out for herself. When Gatsby died, the drama, excitement and attention died with it, so it was time for Daisy to move on.
DeleteI think it was because Daisy wasn't important to Gatsby anymore. Daisy was done with Gatsby. Daisy wanted comfort and comfort for her was money. So, Daisy went back to Tom because he promised her comfort.
DeleteI think it showed how daisy truly felt about Gatsby she never really loved him she loved the lifestyle that he could provide her. I think her not showing up to his funeral is a dead give away of daisy not caring.
DeleteA little more Langston Hughes for you:
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
Like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
Like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
What happens to dreams deferred in The Great Gatsby?
I think Gatsby's dream dried up in the sun like a raisin.
DeleteIts pretty clear that Daisy doesn't care about what happened. She said that she loved Tom and Gatsby in the apartment yet she never comes back. Do you think she is a person capable of love?
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book Daisy seems to be always changing her mind and seems more focused on the attention rather than love.
DeleteI think she was more in love with the idea of love
DeleteFrom what we've seen from Daisy, I think she's really good at loving herself instead of others. It's obvious that she didn't care about Gatsby. She may have cared about him once but she didn't the second time around. I also think that Daisy being around Tom has made her lose the perception of loving others.
DeleteOn Page 176 Nick says, "I see now that this has been a story of the West...". What makes Nick believe that none of these character in the book are fit to live in the West?
ReplyDeleteI feel like Gatsby's want for Daisy is much like any Amazon customers want for their package to arrive. You wait and wait and wait and it finally shows up and you tear it open and you have fun for a little but then it just becomes boring, a normal item you see every day. You eventually want to order another package. Daisy became more boring and Gatsby asked so much of her. She wasn't as good as he always thought she'd be.
ReplyDeleteisn't it weird how murder sounds like Myrtle
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was intentional but i guess you could say it's weird
Delete"Tom and Gatsby, Daisy and Jordan and I, we're all westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to eastern life" (176) What does he mean unadaptable? Unadaptable to what part of the Eastern life?
ReplyDeleteI think every part of the country does things differently as the US is a very big place and each part of it has their own culture as the culture in the East is much different than the culture in the west and some people very easily adapt to their surroundings and some only do well with what they know
DeleteWas it fair that Wilson directly killed Gatsby, just because it was his car? to me it seems like there were still a lot of questions that needed to be asked
ReplyDeleteI agree but I still think Wilson didn't care just cause that was the first name that was told to him he just wanted to kill him so that people could understand how sad he was and how much he wanted revenge.
DeleteI don't think that it was fair for Gatsby to die at all. He didn't deserve it because it wasn't even his fault.
Deleteon page 171 Meyer Wolfshiem and nick are having a conversation and Meyer claims he was the one that raised him up from nothing and then he says "I knew I could use him good" Do you feel like this is how everyone in the book treats each other? like the just wanna use each other
ReplyDeleteNot everyone uses each other in the book, I think it is how you portray yourself, and what you need. Gatsby would do anything for money, so that Daisy would like him and so that he could provide for her. Gatsby could have known that he was being used but he needed to get to the social status that would "make" Daisy like him.
DeleteWhy does Fitzgerald use the color green so much? is it his favorite color?
ReplyDeletefrom www.bourncreative.com/meaning-of-the-color-green/ it says that green means renewal and energy and maybe he wanted to show that this is how Gatsby wanted to renew his relationship with daisy.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGreen stands for balance and growth, but Fitzgerald uses it for hope
DeleteI think that green represents a desire or greed that Gatsby had.
DeleteOn page 180, Nick is sitting on the beach thinking " So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." Why do you think this is the way he chose to end it?
ReplyDelete“I found myself on Gatsby’s side, and alone.” pg 164
ReplyDeleteWhy was everyone so quick to believe Gatsby had done something bad or just not really care about his death?
There are so many suspicions surrounding Gatsby so its easier for people who don't know him to make assumptions that he did something wrong.
DeleteI think it's because of the rumors surrounding Gatsby, they don't want to be caught up in whatever he was involved in.
DeleteOn page 168, Gatsby's dad calls Gatsby, Jimmy. Why does author include the fact that Jay was not his actual name? What does this reveal about Gatsby?
ReplyDeleteGatsby maybe didn't want to know his true family or anyone trace him back to that because his family was barely mentioned throughout the whole book.
DeleteI think Daisy heard about Gatsby's death but she's running away from it because she's selfish/careless and she's also a little scared and regretful since she's the one who killed Mertyl and she didn't try to protect Gatsby
ReplyDeleteI agree I also think she doesn't want to be lonely so that is why she chose to run away from Tom.
DeleteWhy did so many people go to Gatsby's parties but no one could show up to his funeral?
ReplyDeleteI think that no one really feels like they knew Gatsby well enough to go to his funeral. Many of them went to his parties but never really met the guy.
DeleteWhy didn't anyone come to the funeral? Everyone wanted to know him when he was alive but no one cared when he was dead?
ReplyDeleteI feel like people were just using him that's why no one but nick really knew his story because everyone else just wanted Gatsby for him money.
DeleteGatsby bought peoples' love and affection so they all thought very shallowly of him and didn't really care when he died. After all he probably wouldn't have even known if something happened to them.
DeleteI think people attended the parties as an escape from the reality of their lives. Gatsby the person has no influence on their lives; they go there to momentarily experience something elevated.
DeleteWhat has Nick learned from being involved with Gatsby and Daisy's relationship?
ReplyDeleteI think if anything he has learned what not to do. He learned that the past cannot be repeated and that you can't just break the rules and wait for it to work out
DeleteIt's pretty ironic that it's raining at his funeral and the only other time it rained was when Gatsby set up the time to meet with Daisy at Nick's
ReplyDeleteOn page 64 Nick says, "I found myself on Gatsby's side, and alone." This really hits me because Gatsby is made up to be this amazing guy that everyone loves but in the end he basically had tried to buy their love with parties and Nick was his only real friend.
ReplyDeleteHow did Nick's opinion of repeating the past change? When thinking about the past and the green light, he said "It eluded us then, but thats no matter-to-morrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past" (180).
ReplyDeleteI think his opinion on repeating the past never changes and he never believes that its possible but he comes to realize that no matter what people are always going to believe that they can repeat the past
DeleteThat would make more sense. I initially thought that this was his new opinion but it would make more sense that his opinion would stay the same, especially after seeing how chasing the past worked out for Gatsby.
DeleteOn page 169 when Nick said "They were hard to find" I was confused why he included that detail, because we all new that nobody really knew gatsby they just knew of the parties which just happened to be at Gatsbies house.
ReplyDelete¨Mr.Gatz. I thought you might want to take the body West. He shook his head. Jimmy always liked it better down East¨Do you think Daisy was the reason he liked it better down East or do you think he honesty liked the lavish lifestyle he had down East? If Gatsby had a choice before he died do you think he would want to be buried down East or down West?
ReplyDeleteI think the East because the East was where he fell in love with this girl and where he found this lavish lifestyle that he so desperately wanted to have and he considered that his home not the West
DeleteAt the end of the book Nick talks a lot about the beauty of the earth, how do you think this connects to Gatsby and Daisy's story?
ReplyDeleteI love that last page. I think Fitzgerald is connecting Gatsby's dream to the American dream that brought the early explorers here. Our capacity for wonder is perhaps a deep and complex part of being American, but it also makes us vulnerable.
DeleteThe reason that nobody showed up to Gatsby's funeral is because most of everyone he knew where just business he had no real friends, for example we saw that at one of his parties he was just sitting in the corner not talking. Everyone who attended his parties just used him and didn't care for him at all.
ReplyDeleteThis is kind of a sad reality but it is the exact reality that Gatsby set up for himself. He lived extravagantly and threw parties but all he ever really cared about (besides Daisy) was his money and his belongings.
DeleteAgreed. I feel people just used him for business reasons. There was no true friendship there. With his death, they are seeing one less opportunity to make money, not the loss of a friend.
DeleteGatsby's dad tells Nick that one of his books growing up was Hopalong Cassidy. I googled the book, and it was about a cowboy hero.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Fitzgerald decide to include that book? How does it relate to Gatsby?
Thanks for looking that up--I always wondered about that reference. I think Fitzgerald is connecting Gatsby to earlier American heroes (of the "old world).
DeleteTying into the question in the middle on how we don't know how Nick felt about Gatsby, one of the 11 quotes that we were looking at during the beginning of the class was saying how Nick felt empathy for Gatsby and to me that shows that Nick truly did like and care about Gatsby, sometimes like with everyone and everything we have some disagreements and I think that Nick just had some disagreements with Gatsby, but truly felt for his feelings.
ReplyDelete“You said a bad driver was only safe until she met another bad driver? Well, I met another bad driver didn’t I? I mean it was careless of me to make such a wrong guess. I thought you were rather an honest, straightforward person. I thought it was your secret pride.” pg 177
ReplyDeleteDo you think Jordan said this to hurt Nick because he hurt her by never truly wanting to be with her even though he did love her in part?
I think she probably said this to prove to him that she deserves more than someone who half-heartedly 'loved' her like Nick did.
DeleteI think Nick partly made Jordan realize the person that she was and it made her mad which is why she says mean things to Nick.
DeleteI was confused by this part. This seemed out of the blue because I didn't think that her and Nick were on bad terms. This situation reminds me of the situation Gatsby was put into years ago when Daisy left him.
DeleteWhat would have happened if there weren't any affairs in this book?
ReplyDeleteIt would probably be a lot less complicated and a lot more boring.
DeleteI feel like there wouldn't be as much drama and then loving another man like Gatsby wanting daisy to love him just as much as he loves her. But Tom is still loved by daisy too but is still having an affair so I feel like the bond between both people and how much they love each other is broken because the find feeling for others. And cant be satisfied with one person
DeleteI think Gatsby wouldn't have died, the book would have been completely changed.
DeleteIn chapter 9 Gatsbys dad says ¨if he´d of lived, he´d of been a great man. What does his dad mean by he would have been a great man? Would you agree or do you think Gatsby was already a great man?
ReplyDeleteI wondered this as well, and his dad hasn't seen him for 2 years did they maybe have a falling out?
DeleteI feel like nick is hurt because he relates go Gatsby in how Jordan just used him and she never truly cared for him.
ReplyDeleteWere there still unanswered questions about Gatsby that we will never know?
ReplyDeleteI feel Daisy would've not cheated on Tom with Gatsby because he didn't have an affair. Everything would have been avoided. Only Gatsby's dream would have been affected on not getting his dream girl
DeleteYes, I think that a lot of Gatsby's secrets will die with him, and there are still many things we don't know about him.
DeleteI think there will always be some form of "The American Dream" but it is always changing and is defiantly much different than it was in Gatsby's time.
ReplyDeleteDid Meyer Wolfsheim really cared about Gatsby outside of work? Do you think it was always just strictly a business relationship?
ReplyDeleteGatsby described Wolfsheim as a friend, but I think that Wolfsheim saw their relationship as more of a business relationship, which might be why Wolfsheim did not attend the funeral.
Deletedefinitely business he only wanted Gatsby for his figure and how he looked as a very nice guy and never really wanted a friendship with him.
DeleteI think it became clear that he only cared about Gatsby for his own prosperity and money making opportunities
DeleteI feel like the American dream during the twenties was just about getting very wealthy and having as much fun as you can, that's why I think it's called the "roaring twenties" and I think it has changed today to achieving your American dream is just being happy and making sure you and your family is happy.
ReplyDeleteI mean, throughout history, I feel being happy is one goal. Its human nature. Is it a life worth living if you are not happy? Part of the reason, why I feel Gatsby died. His american dream was no longer possible, therefore he had no chance to be happy in this life.
DeleteWhat do you think Fitgerald want to leave the reader feeling at the end of the book?
ReplyDeletethat even though a lot of events have happened that you still need to move passed them.
DeleteI think that he wanted to tell the readers that there will be people in life that get in the way of what you're trying to accomplish, and you just need to keep working at it
DeleteWas anyone else disappointed on how this book ended?
ReplyDeleteI wish more things would have been resolved.
DeleteI agree with clayton
DeleteI agree with Caroline about the American dream. The book characterizes the American dream as something that seems amazing but is really not all that. How was this opinion influenced by Fitzgerald as he wrote this? How was this similar to his own life?
ReplyDelete@inner circle the American dream is still alive, but only for a portion of a society
ReplyDelete"We're all Westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to Eastern life. " 176
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Nick meant by this line? They all came from this area, but are now living this high life? Are they meant for this life?
Also, I found it interesting, that this is really the first time Nick opened up about his past. We have been so focused on finding out about Gatsby's past, and his truth, we never thought about Nick.
Just a connection to us over looking Nicks part of the book, is like on his Birthday no one even cared that it was his birthday they always were just focused on Gatsby, money or love, and nick never got much attention.
DeleteDo you think in the end Gatsby really reconsidered the life choices he made for himself? He choice to win Daisy back and in the end he failed. Do you think he wished he would have lived a life like his parents in the West?
ReplyDeleteI really thought that the book would end up differently, I imagined that Daisy and Gatsby would have ended up with each other and more of my questions would have gotten answered.
ReplyDeleteLauren asked, "'Tom and Gatsby, Daisy and Jordan and I, we're all westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to eastern life' (176) What does he mean unadaptable? Unadaptable to what part of the Eastern life?" This is something I found myself wondering about too. I thought maybe they weren't fast enough for Eastern life, as Western life is described as a little more low-key and none of them seemed to thrive in the hard-partying East. But back on page 77, Jordan says Daisy and Tom "moved with a fast crowd" when they lived in Chicago, so maybe my first instinct is not right.
ReplyDeleteBrad said, "I feel like the American dream during the twenties was just about getting very wealthy and having as much fun as you can, that's why I think it's called the "roaring twenties" and I think it has changed today to achieving your American dream is just being happy and making sure you and your family is happy." This made me consider how the state of the U.S. economy influences the American Dream. This book was written during the economic boom of the '20s, when the sky must have seemed the limit and wealth only grew. Time periods of fast economic growth allow a sort of Gordon Gekkoesque, "greed is good" mindset to thrive. This is seen in the excess, ostentatiousness, and lack of morality that characterizes society in The Great Gatsby. Of course, we know the "Roaring '20s" were followed by the Great Depression. I wonder if/how Fitzgerald's book might be different if he had written it after seeing the devastation that followed the period of excess and high hopes. Would the book's ending be even darker? Would Tom, Daisy, Jordan, and Nick be destroyed too? During the Great Depression and in its aftermath, the American Dream shifted towards a modest hope for a comfortable and productive life for oneself and one's family. Today, in the aftermath of the Great Recession, the American Dream is perhaps again in its more modest form.